Retraction Analysis of Child “Q”

“We Believe The Hampstead Children – 17 Sept. 2014 Retraction Analysis”

THIS IS NOT A LAWFUL RETRACTION!!!

Is this ‘retraction’ considered a ‘lawful’ retraction?  This is NOT what a true and ‘lawful’ retraction looks and sounds like.  This retraction should never have stopped a police investigation into the children’s’ initial allegations.   We believe the children were coerced into giving false testimony.

Transcripts are found HERE

For those outside the UK (videos blocked in UK), the audio was taken from The Hampstead Cover Up 

Retraction analysis Power Point presentation on Scribd

This is what the IPCC wrote about the retractions in their letter upholding Ella Gareeva’s complaints into how police investigated her children’s claims:

“Retraction Statements

Point 4 – Retraction statements were inadequate due to the level of detail in the initial complaints

Point 18 – Retraction statements were coerced from the victims and inconsistent. Concerns raised over the language used by the interviewing officer

Point 19 – The officer led child Q to retract the allegations regarding the murder of children

The IO (Investigating Officer Martin) states the children retracted their statements of their own volition whilst in foster care’
It is apparent, and not denied by the police officers involved, that the conversation took place between the children and the officer conducting the ABE interviews whilst in a car travelling to the venue where the children then made retraction in their interviews. This conversation was regarding retracting the allegations.
The interviewing officer states that he spoke with the girl but did not go into discussion with her brother. I have not been provided with any record of these conversations. I would have expected that a written note of such important discussions be made and would have been made available during the local investigation/appeal.
It is also noted that the children continued to make reference to the allegations after 17 September 2014 to their foster carer.
Having watched the interviews, I have concern in relation to the retraction statements. It is clear that the retraction was discussed by DC Martin and A in the car on the way to the interview. I have not seen any recorded notes of the conversation that took place.
Regarding the way G’s retraction interview was progressed is also of concern. DC Martin. in my opinion, appears to lead the retraction. He asks questions and when G gives an answer that is not the desired one, DC Martin pursues this until G agrees that it did not happen. It is my opinion that this is inappropriate. In my opinion the IO report does not accurately reflect the extent of this questioning.
In addition to that at the beginning of the interview DC Martin states, tell me if you are tired and we’ll stop.’ G replies, Well I’m tired DC Martin ‘Yes, if you’re tired we’ll stop,’ He then continues to discuss the ‘rules’ and continue with the interview completely ignoring G’s desire to stop.

From Child Protection Services (CPS): 

“Guidance for Charging Perverting the Course of Justice and Wasting Police Time in Cases involving Allegedly False Allegations of Rape and / or Domestic Abuse”- Link

  1. True allegations are sometimes retracted for a whole range of reasons which include:
    • a complainant may be subjected to pressure, fear of violence, or intimidation (which may itself constitute a criminal offence). This may be from the accused, his / her family, friends or the community;
    • a desire to give an existing relationship another chance;
    • the complainant’s fear that they will not be believed as a result of how they reacted / behaved after the incident;
    • the fact that the incident will be the complainant’s word against the word of the accused as there is no other evidence (for example, non-consensual intercourse will not always leave visible signs on the body or genitals);
    • a delay in reporting the incident to the police;
    • the impact upon children and / or finances (such as on benefits or tax allowances);
    • as a result of an agreement by the person originally accused to halt proceedings in the family courts;
    • embarrassment;
    • a fear of going to court, and / or having to relive the experience through the giving of evidence;
    • family / community pressure which may stem from the immediate and extended family, the wider community and from cultural traditions;
    • the complainant is involved in prostitution;
    • insecure immigration status;
    • the complainant has a history of or a current problem with substance misuse;
    • mental health issues / learning disabilities; or
    • to bring a prosecution to an end because a complainant believes or has been told that merely withdrawing their support would not necessarily do so.
Use of Retraction to Support Falsity of Original Complaint
  1. If the guidance above has been taken into account then a retraction claiming that the original allegation was not true may be used as part of the evidence to demonstrate the falsity of the original allegation. However, it would never be sufficient if it was the only evidence of falsity and a prosecution should never be based solely on evidence of a retraction. In such a case it would only take the suspect to withdraw the retraction and revert to the truth of the original allegation for the prosecution to be left in situation where it would be impossible to say which version of events is true. Therefore, there would always have to be some other evidence to prove falsity for there to be sufficient evidence for a prosecution.
Use of Retractions as Basis of Prosecution
  1. In law a false retraction of a true complaint could form the basis of a prosecution for a relevant offence. However, prosecutions on this basis are exceptionally rare indeed. The evidence would need special scrutiny. Even if a prosecutor believes that there is sufficient evidence to prove that it was the retraction rather than the original allegation which was false, then very careful consideration would have to be given about whether a prosecution would be in the public interest. Any decision to prosecute in such circumstances would be highly exceptional indeed. This is because, as a matter of logic, if the original allegation was or may have been true, then it follows that the suspect may have been a victim of rape or domestic abuse who should not be criminalised.

 

The two medical reports come from Aangirfan and can be read at these links:

Examination date 12/09/14  Reports dated 15/09/14  

Examination date 16/09/14  Report dated 22/09/14

Transcript of Child “Q” Retraction 17/9/14

“Q”: 8 year old boy (sometimes referred to as “G”)
“S”: Steve the policeman/interviewer
S: So, when er when we was in the car………..you desperately wanted to tell me something but I asked
Q: Yeah
S: You to wait until we got here before we talked……….. So what is it you really wanted to tell me?
Q: Yeah
Q: Want to tell, Abraham he like accused me like er like when um he said does your Dad hurt you much…….
S: Yeah
Q: …..does he hurt you really bad? And I say, no he doesn’t and he said yes he does and he accuses me.
S: OK. And then what happens?
Q: And then he says yes your Dad does hit you really hard.
S: Yeah
Q: And he says no he doesn’t hit me hard. He hits me softly….just to remind me.
S: OK. So, what was it, we talked in two other interviews before, didn’t we
Q: Yeah
S: Was what you told me the truth?
Q: Yeah   (first confirmation)
S: So all that stuff about the babies
Q: Yeah   (second confirmation)
S: and the church
Q: Yeah    (third confirmation)
S: and all that..
Q: no, no the babies, the babies, he um no well there is some of the babies killed yep.     (fourth confirmation)
S: OK, are you sure?
Q: Yes. But not much, not every single day not every single day like killed, no not like that.    (fifth confirmation)
S: OK, coz I heard you watched a film Zorro, is that right?
Q: Yep
S: And there was someone killed…killed there, weren’t there. Because, coz of the way it sounded, it sounded to me similar to the way you told me about the babies and that’s why I was a bit…wondering are babies actually killed
Q: Yeah    (sixth confirmation)
S: or is it something you’ve been made to say?
Q: Yeah, it’s something I’ve been made to say.
S: So are babies being killed?
Q: No, not much but there is, yeah. But not much. (seventh confirmation)
S: By who?
Q: By my Dad. Not much.   (eighth confirmation)
S: Are you sure?
Q: Yes   (ninth confirmation)
S: It’s ok, if it hasn’t happened it’s ok as long as we talk about it now. OK?   (You ARE talking about it and the boy just told you nine times that what he said before was true)
Q: Yeah. So I lied about it no because he made me say it.
S: So I, so, there’s two things. So first of all you say you lied… So are…Let me just be clear. Are babies being killed or not.
Q: No (first denial)
P: So they’re not.
Q: No, he made me say it. (second denial)
S: Who’s he? Who made you say it.
Q: Abraham.
S: How did he make you say it?
Q: When I said,,,when I, when he asked me, Is any baby killed?’ I said no there isn’t and then he says yes there is he’s like accusing me of my Dad killing me, of me of him helping me killing babies
S: OK, what about all the secret rooms in these houses and places?
Q: No.  (first denial)
S: Are there any secret rooms?
Q: Ss..not much. Well there is, yeah not much not much no.   (first confirmation)
S: What do you mean…so have you ever been in a secret room in any of these places?
Q: Well it’s not kind of secret room…  (second confirmation)
S: Shall we start with the church. You told me there was a secret room
Q: Yeah there is those rooms. No there isn’t there isn’t because Abraham, like, he tried to make me say it.   (third confirmation & second denial)
S: Coz the way…coz I went to that church and I just wanted to understand where it was, coz you said it was in the old..in the nursery, and then the toy room, and then you go into another door in the toy room.
Q: No (third denial)
S: Is there a door really in that toy room
Q: No. Because he tried to make me say it but I like say no no no. Not no there isn’t there isn’t there isn’t. But he tried to make me say it.
S: OK
Q: You know, he accuses me. It’s not nice.
S: No, I bet it’s not. How does it make you feel when he accuses you?
Q: When he accuses me it makes me feel like…when he goes there he checks it’s not there. And then he will blame me.
S: OK, does that worry you or not.
Q: Yes it worries me.
S: OK and then you told me about lots of other things that happened about baby skulls and people dancing. Does that happen?
Q: No..
S: So…
Q: You know what happened?….
S: Go on…
Q: When he er he accused me of killing babies, he said what do you do with the skulls? What do you do with the bones? He like, he like really shouting it out…I couldn’t think of nothing, what they did with the bones what they did with the skulls….and I got nothing to think of and…and I had to like say…l had to like…straightaway I had to like say They were dancing with it, they were trying it on.
S: Oh ok. And what about…you told me about obviously the swimming pool, you told me lots of people in this disabled toilets and they done stuff with your willy
Q: Yeah yeah that, that’s true. That is true, yep.
S: It’s true? even though you said you was only 4 and you hadn’t been to that school.
Q: No, they had they had like..they were friends like teachers like I know I only was 4 years old but my sister was in the school when I was 4 years old.
S: OK.
S S So… what we’ll do, we’ll try and sort out what’s true and what’s not true. So the babies, it’s not true
Q: No.
S: No babies being killed, no baby skulls…secret rooms, are there any secret rooms?
Q: No.
S: What about with the wardrobes….
Q: No, no, look, no that’s not true
S: Cupboards
Q: No. Yeah. I. Abraham made me say that, He said “Where’s the secret room?” He said where the secret room?” My Dad is the main person doing the sex…so um he is the main personAbraham accused me of saying he got the most secret rooms..
S: So..has your..have you been to a house of your Dad’s with secret rooms?
Q: No..
S: So their’s no secret rooms…  (at his dad’s house)
Q: No..
S: And have you ever been to Mr Mullin’s house..?
Q: Hollings? No, it’s not Mullins it’s Hollings’
S: Have you ever been to Mr Hollings’ house? (a teacher)
Q: Yes. Um it’s um it’s um it’s um on..it’s number five and it’s a …number f…no it’s number ten it’s from how’s it called Highgate Road
S: OK. We went to ten Highgate Road you remember and it was a block of flats wasn’t it remember?
Q: Yeah
S: Er, remember you won’t get into trouble, I promise you, as long as you just tell me the truth about..if we can just talk about the truth…then have you been to Mr Hollings’ house?
Q: No, because he’s my teacher…No, he’s not my teacher, he’s my sister’s teacher.
S: He’s your sister’s teacher. So you haven’t been to his house.
Q: No
S: OK. so why did you say you’d been to Mr Hollings’ house before?
Q: Well my Dad actually stays there. Um, because he…he doesn’t like staying alone. S: Ok.
Q: So he stays at Mr Hollings’s house.
S: OK….And, now after all this stuff with Abraham and you say he’s telling you and he keeps accusing you, can you remember what things are true and what things aren’t true Q: Yeah
S: You can?
Q: Yeah…whatever like worries me I want to remember.
S: OK, so we know there’s no baby skulls {Q shakes head} no babies being killed {Q looks up} your Dad hasn’t got any secret rooms {Q shakes head} you haven’t been to Mr Hollings’ house {Q shakes head}. OK.
Q: Well actually, um, my Dad actually is supposed to be living in um how’s it called Sheffield but he doesn’t have a…he doesn’t have a house in London he actually lives in Sheffield.
S: Oh he lives in Sheffield
Q: Yeah with his Mum, but I yeah you know when I was on Skype, I seen, I seen, um on Skype, I see he told me he was in Sheffield
S: Oh ok. So does your Dad live in Sheffield?
Q: Yeah but he stays in his other friend’s house that I don’t know and he stays at Mr. Hollings’ house and some days he goes off back to Sheffield.
S: Ok and do you know he stays at Mr Hollings’ house or do you guess that?
Q: Who? No, no no I don’t.
S: You don’t know, you guess or
Q: No I don’t guess because um because my Dad and Mr Hollings are really close friends, really close.
S: OK. And the, the stuff with the plastic willies, how did you find out about the plastic willies, who told you about plastic willies?
Q: No no that’s true.
S: That’s true?
Q: Yeah
S: OK. Coz I’ve been told something different.  (not an acceptable line of questioning)
Q: …….by (sister)?
S: Yeah……so honestly, just be truthful…if things aren’t..I promise you won’t get in trouble if you’ve lied before, I promise. (threats of ‘trouble’ if lied before) But we just, all it is I need to know the truth, what to look for and who to speak to. So if some of it is a lie, and you’ve lied about something I promise you won’t get into trouble. OK?
Q: So I lied about the plastic willies.
S: How did you find about plastic willies?
Q: None of it was real. None of it.
S: Why was you nervous about telling me that none of this was real.
Q: Because er Abraham already got you…he already got you of it…and he er you know the first time he ever found out me and my sister touching, it wasn’t actually true we are kissed us…we actually never touched, I know it’s against the law and we never touched, S: Never touched
Q: No we never touched each other.
S: OK. You’ve been to the doctor’s though haven’t you?
Q: Yes
S: And they said, there are, did they tell you what they found, the doctors, what did they say?
Q: Bruises
S: Bruises ok. And where were the bruises?
Q: On my bottom.
S: And how did you get them?
Q: I got no idea.
S: So has anyone ever put anything in your bottom?
Q: No
S: Nothing…and have you ever seen a plastic willy?
Q: No. I never ever seen one even in my life.
S: So how did you think of that idea, was it you that thought of it or..
Q: No, no er I’m the one who thought of it. When he found out I was touching he says he yes em they put real willies in my bottom Abraham says he said they put real willies in your bottom. And then I said no they don’t and then he said yes they do and I said no they don’t and then he said don’t argue yes they do. And then he says er then um then he says also a plastic willy don’t they and I said not they don’t then yes they do no they don’t yes they do no they don’t yes they do no they don’t yes the do no they don’t.
S: OK, so no one’s put any plastic or real willies in your bum. OK. I heard from one of the doctor’s one of your ears is hurt as well.  (How did the boy get bruises on his bottom???  The IO completely ignored the medical report)
Q: Yeah
S: How did that happen?
Q: It’s because he slapped me really hard.
S: Who slapped you?
Q: Abraham.
S: When did he do that?
Q: In Morocco, when er he slapped me he slapped me as hard as he could.
S: Why did he do that?
Q: Because he said yes you’re lying, he said I’m lying I’m lying I’m lying.
S: So what were you doing when he slapped you? Where were you. In Morocco?
Q: In the kitchen. My sister and my Mum seen me been slapped.
S: So you’re in the kitchen, and then what’s happened?
Q: Then um..you see um…my Mum and Abraham, my Mum and (sister) seen me being slapped on the ear but that time my Mum wasn’t watching she was watching somewhere else..
S: OK, so your sister saw it but not your Mum.
Q: No.
S: Hold on, you said no have I got that wrong? Who saw it?
Q: (sister) only.
S: So (sister) only, why didn’t your Mum see it?
Q: Because she was she was doing the cleaning up.
S: So your Mum’s doing the cleaning up….When you said that you was lying, what did you say you was lying about?
Q: About the……secret rooms.
S: OK. So has your Dad ever done anything to you that you don’t like?
Q: No
S: So he doesn’t hit you and he’s never put anything in your bum.
Q: No. He’s really nice.
S: Is he?
Q: So the last week. This is actually the truth what happened.
S: Go on.
Q: The last week, the first time I remember the first time we went on…the first, I don’t remember the first one, I’m sure I remember it we um…The first time we went shopping, and buy some food for us and then we went to (inaudible) it was closed but…no I mean we ate and then he gave us ten pounds for our pocket money that’s how that was the first time he ever gave us pocket money
S: Who you Dad?
Q: Yeah, He gave us ten pounds
S: That’s a lot isn’t it
Q: Yeah, it’s really much..and then we went to (inaudible)-land and because we parked near (inaudible) and we ate in the car. Then we cleaned the car and then we went to (?)land and it was closed. Then it was it was nearly for us to go back to (inaudible) centre…and then the next time, yeah the next time we went swimming to East Finchley.
S: OK. So you’re saying the only reason you said this about your Dad was coz Abraham kept accusing you?
Q: (….looks up)
S: And you call Abraham something else as well don’t you, as well as Abraham you call him something else.
Q: We never call him…well yeah he says, when I call him Abraham he says don’t be rude call me Papa. Even he’s not my Dad! First, this is how it was. I first started calling him Abraham and he said don’t be rude call me Uncle Hemp
S: Yeah
Q: And then I kept calling him Uncle Hemp and then he like made me trouble he said don’t call me Uncle Hemp now call me Papa Hemp.
S: OK.
Q: And he’s not even our Dad.
S: No…OK. Do you like Abraham?
Q: I hate him. I got no idea why my Mum and Abraham…no, I know why my, Mum and my Dad broke up.
S: Why?
Q: My Mum told me this is why, because my Dad wanted to take us to a party but my Mum didn’t want us to because it was really late
S: Oh ok    (a party?  late at night?  What kind of party?  Why didn’t the Interviewing officer follow this line of questioning?)
Q: At night. But we were still like really energetic and I was like bouncing around and then our Dad wanted to take us to a like, it wasn’t asleep we wanted to have fun.
S: OK, alright.
(End of transcription)
(Text in parenthesis, italicized are my comments)
__________________(End of Child “Q” Retraction)

Analyzing the contrasting retractions of the brother & sister

Retraction concerning whether the children’s father knew Mr. H (teacher):

RetractionAnalysis1

Retractions concerning whether the brother & sister touched each other:

Brother says: 

S: Why was you nervous about telling me that none of this was real.
Q: Because er Abraham already got you…he already got you of it…and he er you know the first time he ever found out me and my sister touching, it wasn’t actually true we are kissed us…we actually never touched, I know it’s against the law and we never touched,
S:Never touched
Q: No we never touched each other.
Sister says this in her retraction statement:
S: Ok, so this is- so that’s the man who looks like your Dad in the film who done that. OK. So you’re watching that film and you said Abraham’s come in and said “who’s been touching you”.
P: Yeah
S: So why do you think he said that?
P: I don’t know. He just came in, he didn’t just come in, he came with my Mum, and he said, I think he was planning to get me and “Q” in trouble I think, because he just said, “Who’s touching you, who had learned you to touch each other?”
S: And where you touching each other?
P: Yeah.
S: You were?
P: Yeah, but then after we just watched em my friend “S” from my school, she touches the- she touches me.
S: Who?  “S”?
P: Yeah, she’s my friend but not really.  She just bullies me and all kind of stuff
S: Oh ok.
P: And she touches my privates.
S: OK. So she’s a friend of yours?
P: She actually, yes, but she’s not my friend actually. But she learned me to do that, because- I don’t know where she got that from but she just done it to me.
S: Oh ok.  So “S” showed you how to do it?
P: Yeah yeah. And then after…
S: what did she show you how to do?
P: So so she touched me, and then she said touch me and then I said no that’s wrong. So then after she told me…she just took my hand and er touch and er just er like took my hand and like grabbed my hand and touched it with to her privates.
S: OK
P: And after I said don’t do that “S” or you won’t be my friend. And she says she does not care and she said to me to do it to my brother and then she’ll give me a whole big packet of sweets.
S: And did she?
P: No she said I’ll give you a big whole big packet of sweets tomorrow if you touch your brother or ???? So then I touched Q and then after the next day when she said she’ll give me a pack of sweets she told me she said and then after I said where’s the pack of sweets they told you promised me and she said “I’m just joking, I’ll never give you a packet of sweets.
S: Oh ok. So that hap- so Abraham’s seen you touching your brother, and then what’s happened?
P: And then after when he said, “Who learned you to touch” and all that and then I said “S” learned me to touch “Q” but then he didn’t believe me so then he said No it was someone else. And then I just said er.. it was m- it was just “S” and my friends, who they they taught me to do that. And he said, “No, it’s your Dad”. So then I jus- I jus- said I jus- really have gone blank.
S: OK
P: I just thought why would he say my Dad even though it’s not true?
S: OK, so did your Dad teach you?
P: No, only “S” and me and “E” (another school friend).
So the brother says they never touched each other while the sister says they did….

Retractions concerning “plastic willies”

Brother says:

S: OK. And the, the stuff with the plastic willies, how did you find out about the plastic willies, who told you about plastic willies?
Q: No no that’s true.
S: That’s true?
Q: Yeah
S: OK. Coz I’ve been told something different.  
Q: …….by (sister)?
S: Yeah……so honestly, just be truthful…if things aren’t..I promise you won’t get in trouble if you’ve lied before, I promise.  But we just, all it is I need to know the truth, what to look for and who to speak to. So if some of it is a lie, and you’ve lied about something I promise you won’t get into trouble. OK?
Q: So I lied about the plastic willies.
S: How did you find about plastic willies?
Q: None of it was real. None of it.
Sister says:

S: And you told me about, a lot about plastic willies.
P: That’s all not true because…
S: How did  you know about these?
P: Because “S”, she has an iPad Mini and she likes sexy stuff and all this and she showed me a picture of a plastic willy, sticking in a bum.
S: Oh right!
P: So I got the idea off that.
S: OK
P: It was in Year 3
S: Oh in year 3
P: Because I’m in year 5 right now.
S: OK
P: Because I remembered it from memory straightaway and I just said ….um um you know how they stick plastic willies in my bottom you know, Abraham…
S: So how did Q know about all that?
P: Because I told him. Coz that time, when because that time I told Q that day when “S” showed me her iPad mini that she showed me this kind of stuff. And he said “ooh that’s yuck that’s yucky”

These ‘retractions” clearly DO NOT CORRELATE while the children’s original allegations of sexual abuse DO.  Even when they were filmed separately, as well as their first two police interviews, their allegations of abuse were remarkably exact.  We will take a look at those in another post.

JUST 2 DAYS PRIOR to the children’s retractionsDr. Hodes wrote in her medical report dated Sept. 15, 2014 that both children continued with their allegations during their exams on Sept. 12, 2014:

“She (“P”, 9 year old girl) alleged that lubrication was used prior to the insertion of the penis or the plastic penis and identified and discussed the lubricant with her foster carer.  She told me that Vaseline was used as the lubricant.  She also told me about having had an injection.  She alleged that bleeding after the event had occurred and that then had pain on opening her bowels.

She told me that she has difficulty in getting to sleep and she has bad dreams including dreaming about her father killing her”

Dr. Hodes continues;

“In the absence of a history of constipation, medical illness and accidental trauma according to the GP notes, the anogenital finding of the scar and the RAD are consistent with her allegation of the application of a blunt penetrating force to her anus;sexual abuse.

She has described symptoms of post-traumatic stress.”

So how is it that the children continue to talk about their sexual abuse with their foster carer and Dr. Hodes up until the RETRACTIONS on Sept. 17, 2014?  How did the idea of ‘retracting’ their allegations come about?   How did Officer Martin get the children from their foster home on 17 September,  to a police station by car hours away?  Did the children tell their foster carer they wanted to retract their allegations?  When he picked them up, why did he speak to them in the car on the way without recording it? What was said?  And he had a room set up with cameras and staff ready for retractions to be given but it was not at his police station in Barnet….how was this all set up so quickly?  One day, the children are still repeating their allegations, the next day they recant???  These are the questions that drive us to continue our campaign to find the truth.

Thank you for reading and taking the time to comprehend the seriousness of this case.

I leave you with;                                                                                                                     “Assessing the Veracity in Children’s  Recantation of Sexual Abuse Disclosures”

 

 

 

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